110 Comments

not just harming children. It is extracting the life force and executive function of adults too.

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Exactly how I would phrase it.

More and more I'm coming to believe that "Hyperion" was not a sci-fi novel but a work of prophecy for how accurately it predicted the harms caused by social media

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Thanks for introducing me to the Novel. I haven't read fiction in years, but this one looks tempting.

I expand on my statement in my latest letter to my children titled "win the battle for your mind"

https://legacybydesign.substack.com/p/letter-to-my-sons-win-the-battle

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Absolutely Manny - I couldn't agree more. Are you also aware of the harms of wireless radiation?

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Please stop hijacking After Babel's posts. This will be the only thread in which I engage with your arguments. I am doing so as a way of warning others that you are, at best, conspicuously misinformed about the cause that you're so dedicated to.

I'll focus on your claim below that Wi-Fi is a "2B carcinogen according to the WHO".

The items that the WHO (specifically the IARC) classifies as 2B are *not* considered carcinogens. They're described as "possibly carcinogenic to humans". Probable carcinogens are classified as 2A, and *confirmed* carcinogens are classified as 1.

https://www.iarc.who.int/infographics/iarc-monographs-classification/

To put this in perspective, solar radiation and processed meat are both class-1 agents. In other words, according to the WHO, there is far less evidence that Wi-Fi causes cancer than there is that sunlight or bacon cause cancer--and even if it did, the effect size might be just as modest.

https://monographs.iarc.who.int/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/List_of_Classifications.pdf

Finally, the WHO did not rate Wi-Fi, specifically; it rated "radiofrequency electromagnetic fields". This is an important distinction, because even if radio EMFs cause cancer at high enough amplitudes (e.g. radiation from a cell phone tower), the threshold may be far above what a home's router can produce.

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What happened to the precautionary principle?

Why would anyone want to increase the possibility of contracting cancer?

Did you know that other countries - Sweden, Russia, Israel, France have banned Wi-Fi from classrooms due to health concerns?

2B is "possibly carcinogenic" however a strong recommendation has been made by the IARC to investigate further.

When it comes to health and radiofrequency (phones vs cell towers) low power levels can often do more harm than others, as our bodies (think of an EKG or EEG) run on sophisticated electrical systems of low power.

There are over 10,000 studies showing that radiofrequency and EMF are harmful:

https://www.5gspaceappeal.org/the-appeal to the biosphere, plants, bees, etc.

If I'm wrong, and people listen to my advice, then the worst that may happen is children stop using cell phones, then we've decreased distraction and the pitfalls of social media, cutting them down at the root.

If you're wrong - we've dramatically increased the risk of cancer for children.

Again - why not apply the precautionary principle?

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I'll address these arguments if and only if you acknowledge that your original claim about the WHO is false.

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What did I state as false? Wi-Fi is radiofrequency radiation.

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I addressed this above. To reiterate: your claim that Wi-Fi is "a 2B carcinogen according to the WHO" is false, because--among other reasons--it's incorrect to refer to 2B agents as carcinogens.

Agents that are classified as 2B are officially described as "possibly carcinogenic to humans". Logically, this implies that they're possibly *non*-carcinogenic to humans. Referring to them as carcinogens completely dismisses the latter possibility.

Furthermore, the WHO's framework contrasts 2B agents with "probably carcinogenic" (2A) agents. This implies that the former probably *aren't* carcinogenic.

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Jan 11
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Thanks for the name-calling Barry. Appreciate it. Have a nice day.

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That I haven't found to be a problem, and if it is, we are screwed because escaping radio waves is next to impossible in modern society.

At least with this one we have a way out

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I understand where you're coming from - wireless is an issue b/c it's invisible and silent, yet our entire bodies run on electricity (EEG, EKG).

FYI Other countries like Israel and France have banned Wi-Fi in their schools due to health concerns, and it's a 2B carcinogen according to the WHO. https://ehtrust.org/health-effects-wireless-in-schools/

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Yet we use radio communication for cellphone and music, so why havent they banned that too?

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Great question. It's b/c all international safety standards come from ICNIRP out of Brussels, and they (a private 13member organization) have determined wireless to be safe since they base safety on thermal (heating of skin tissue) effects, and do not consider non-thermal (biological effects)

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I will dig into it some more

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Hi Manny, circling back with another point: Russia and Sweden are the latest countries to ban cell phones in classrooms. Numerous other countries already have school cell phone prohibitions including England, France, the Netherlands, Finland, Israel, China, Australia, Greece, Ghana, Rwanda, and Uganda, but not the United States

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Several states have indeed banned them! So glad.

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This was one of the best articles I have read on the subject. However, banning TikTok without banning its destructive business practices is like banning a heroin dealer without doing anything about their innovative heroin product that everyone on the streets are now selling.

Why we would think making a foreign mafia sell their digital drug operations to an American dealer is going to make a difference is a stunning level of ignoring the reality of this issue.

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Agree! Who among us believes that a social media platform controlled by Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg would be any less pernicious than the current TikTok operators? Americans seem to believe that free speech was handed down on stone tables on Mount Sinai!?!

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I largely agree with Phil, but I think it's wrong to assume that all social media sites desire to be equally, terribly awful.

From what I've heard, some of Musk's changes to X help promote moderation and executive functioning. Examples include allowing long videos posts, and the community notes feature.

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Lol Musk steers the algorithms to maximum discord and conflict and unleashed a flood of conspiracy theory/racist accounts, some of when he even retweets. Far less moderation than before.

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What I mean by "moderation" is a lack of extremism, not a lack of uncouth opinions.

Also, "maximizing discord" and "breaking echo chambers" are two sides of the same coin.

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Yeah sorry I don't view amplifying views that school shootings were hoaxes or vaccines cause cancer/autism as merely "uncouth opinions breaking the echo chamber."

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Great (and harrowing) illustration, Phil. As Jon and Zach state in their intro, the ban has nothing to do with the human harms. We tried addressing that with KOSA but Congress couldn't get it done.

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Well said, Phil. Scary how accurate the analogy to heroin is. Meta and X are almost just as harmful, besides that their algorithm is not as effective. Typical Chinese having the purest heroin 💀

What can be done though? We still haven’t been able to get a grip on actual physical addictions let alone mental addictions that can be empowered by the free speech narrative.

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Jan 9Edited

YouTube Shorts, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram Reels are all using the same algorithms as Tiktok now. They all need to be banned for under 16s. The Supreme Court/Trump presidency only wants to ban tiktok because they allow freedom of expression about Israel’s genocide on Palestine, and they don’t like that a Chinese platform is economically competitive against American platforms and out of their governmental reach. If they cared about American children and screen addiction they’d ban all of these platforms for minors.

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"The Supreme Court/Trump presidency only wants to ban tiktok because they allow freedom of expression about Israel’s genocide on Palestine"

Do you have any evidence of this? Without it, your claim sounds like a combination of mind-reading and conspiracy-theorizing. What *exactly* are the opinions that TikTok allows but other platforms ban? I've seen lots of pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli comments on YouTube and elsewhere.

On the other hand, there are some decent reasons for the government to focus on TikTok over its competitors. For example:

* It's the most popular platform for ultra-short-form content

* It's exclusively dedicated to ultra-short-form content

* Its recommendation algorithm is considered by many (e.g. Kade, a fellow commenter) to be the most potent/addictive

* In general, it has exceptionally poor safeguards against minors being exposed to adult content

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It’s not a conspiracy theory at all. AIPAC has a chokehold on American politics, every Republican representative has an AIPAC babysitter. They lobby regulators daily and have pushed heavily for this bipartisan bill https://www.timesofisrael.com/major-us-jewish-group-backs-bipartisan-bill-that-could-see-tiktok-banned/amp/

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Yes, it is. Legislators' stated reasons for the ban include national security risks, retaliation against China's censorship of U.S. companies, and health risks to adolescents. Your own source acknowledges some of this. Although the AIPAC is censorious, to assume that their influence secretly dominates "every" Republican's considerations of several other important issues constitutes a conspiracy theory.

Also, you didn't answer my question: what *exactly* are the opinions that TikTok allows but other platforms ban?

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Also we have leaked audio of Leaked audio of ADL chief executive Jonathan Greenblatt freaking out because global youth aren't buying Israel's propaganda anymore: https://x.com/DrLoupis/status/1766414312606744775

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I listened to the audio. That's such a blatantly partisan way of twisting Greenblatt's words that you've undermined my trust of every other characterization that you've made on this thread.

Also, please stop splitting the thread. I'll continue the conversation under the "Anthony Blinken" and "degree of addictiveness" comments.

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Anthony Blinken admitted it to Mitt Romney that anti-Israel sentiment was a problem on tiktok https://www.state.gov/secretary-antony-j-blinken-at-mccain-institutes-2024-sedona-forum-keynote-conversation-with-senator-mitt-romney/

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Yes, he believes that anti-Israel sentiment is a problem on TikTok--just as you believe (as you stated below) that reactionary politics are/were a problem on Twitter and Facebook. Neither statement is a call for a ban.

You still haven't answered my question: what *exactly* are the opinions that TikTok allows but other platforms ban? Anti-Israel sentiment isn't exclusive to to TikTok.

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It’s not exclusive to tiktok but there are higher degrees of it on there and there’s a much much bigger gen Z audience (who they don’t want to be anti-Zionist), and certainly the elites (Anthony Blinken, anti-defamation league and AIPC) believe that’s reason enough to lobby congress to ban it. You seem like another Zionist stooge to be honest, you’d be dishonest to pretend otherwise.

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It's the most popular platform for ultra-short-form content

* It's exclusively dedicated to ultra-short-form content

* Its recommendation algorithm is considered by many (e.g. Kade, a fellow commenter) to be the most potent/addictive

None of these points matter, as they’re all clearly addictive

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The degree of addictiveness obviously does matter. It's the reason why opioids are more heavily regulated than nicotine, and nicotine is more heavily regulated than caffeine.

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You really believe Twitter’s and Facebook’s algorithms aren’t bad? It’s not like they rotted millions of peoples brains and directed their feeds towards reactionary politics to the point where they went out and rioted in the UK and Ireland, burning down buildings and looting..

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No, my argument is that there are degrees of badness, and that it makes sense to address the worst ones the most quickly and harshly.

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So city wide far-right insurrections are not more dangerous than kids scrolling tiktok?

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Exactly

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Tom, you can construe the ban however you'd like. However, information is widely available of the SCOTUS hearing. The ban is about a communist government collecting scores of datapoints on American citizens. This is why Instagram & YouTube shorts (very similar platforms) are not the subject of a ban.

Anything beyond this is conspiracy theories with zero basis in reality.

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Sinophobia

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Wow, it is sad to say that even having expected the worst, it was still surprising to read so many of these knowingly harmful details about the platform. Thank you for taking the time to share these redacted documents. These details also offer parents concrete reasons to share with their kids about getting off this app and break free from this engineered mental enslavement.

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This is a brilliantly conceived, researched, and written piece. Most profoundly, it demonstrates the scope and complexity of the failure - not just one or two actors but many, operating at different levels and interacting with each other in insidious ways. For example, the Context point made that Chinese youth are too busy studying to use TT, but American youth are sociologically compelled. Then there are the Structure factors such as the addictive design of the platform followed by TT management's own conflicted perspectives and the failure to control the platform. Perhaps one reason most people fail to understand the seriousness of this failure, even in the face of brilliant, detailed exposés, is its complexity.

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I would like to thank you from the most earnest corner of my mind that these articles are openly accessible and not behind a paywall or reserved for paying subscribers.

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We roll our eyes at our ancestors for using arsenic soap and smoking on airplanes. I'm convinced that giving children unbridled access to our online world will be the thing that makes future generations shake their heads and say, "how didn't they know?"

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When will we acknowledge the harm of pornifying teens and kids? After Babel goes way too easy on these pornography apologists. It defies common sense and basic decency. We have universalized CSA! The meek response by us normies gives these people all the power. 20 years of terrorizing men and women by pornifying the men - we are so naive.

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Are these damages exclusively from TikTok or all Social Media?

If TikTok is banned won't another outlet replace the void and do the same thing?

What is the hurdle to a secure, digital ID that can be used to verify age without violating privacy?

Why don't we restore the regulations prohibiting foreign entities/governments from owning US media?

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"What is the hurdle to a secure, digital ID that can be used to verify age without violating privacy?"

No such thing exists currently, and probably never will.

"Why don't we restore the regulations prohibiting foreign entities/governments from owning US media?"

That is certainly a good idea. But since we live in a full-blown kleptocracy now, that is unlikely to happen anytime soon. Too much graft to be made via foreign agents.

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So between TikTok and Gender Ideology kids are under constant assault. Whatever happened to the "grownups"? Where's Mr Rogers when you need him?

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Parents and adults with custody have the power to remove TikTok from the children's devices. A child is until the age of 18. Parents under the age of 70 all understand how technology works. Start with the adults since they are legally responsible.

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I have no doubts that America would be better off if TikTok were to go dark, but given the unhinged antics of Mr. Musk and Mr. Zuckerberg's recent pathetic capitulation to the forces of disinformation, we might just be better off if all social media went dark.

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As "Community Notes" works, YOU correct misinformation.

(But maybe "DISinformation" is a way of saying that you just don't like opposing opinions?)

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Just as some people think Zuckerberg's new policies will allow disinformation, other people think the previous policy promoted misinformation. Both can be true.

Humans are inherently biased. The only way to overcome this is to debate in a well-informed, civil manner. Schools need to teach kids how to do this. Businesses need to make time and space for employees, customers, and partners to do the same.

This "nothing to see here" approach to conflict is destructive.

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I caution to compare Musk and Zuckerberg. The First Is speaking what he believes and Is congruent with previous spoken ideas, plus X Is like his newspaper not his Major accomplishment. The second has a decade long record of making profit out of the possibility to use addictions and naivety/illiteracy to manipulate, indoctrinate, eradicate, from own culture and communities, and pervert millions (including children) in the dark without accountability and with connivence of politics. 98% of his profit comes from this use of his platforms. 30-40% from children (also under 13!)

Frances Haugen, has been very clear on describing the psychological profile of Mark Zuckerberg. Not sure what Musk Will be but obviously he takes risks openly, and does not make profit on exploiting children or unleashing civil wars.

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While this puts a spotlight on TikTok, I worry the association with the harms will be tied to the "evil foreign actor." When in reality, China doesn't allow TikTok's practices on domestic soil. The product they make for China, Douyin, operates under strict censorship and content regulations that bans much of what we see in the US and other markets.

In reality, what we're seeing is the impact from the free market attention economy we've openly embraced around the world — free products in exchange for your attention. This is the natural evolution of optimizing for this model. This article is a perfect counterpoint to one I just wrote on the underlying behavioral mechanics that support the addiction and also how AI will make it much more potent. https://ammon.substack.com/p/human-agency-in-the-age-of-ai-persuasion

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I agree with TikTok being a social ill but don’t see any daylight between their practices and other American owned social media companies

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If TikTok disappeared tomorrow, Instagram would immediately take its place with all the same harmful tactics.

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"The multipolar trap"/

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yup, plus they already saw it coming and copied a lot of their functionality - could be the reason zuck is with trump now - they're just waiting for this thing to come to fruition so gen z can flock to his platform

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Or more likely will have a Musk controlled TikTok competing with Instagram for maximum extraction of our youth’s soul.

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I'm OK with Tiktok platform

Freedom of expression is liberating.

Kids aren't as dumb as adults.

Leave TikTok alone

If you disagree censor your child from using it.

Leave others alone.

That's my opin

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You clearly didn’t read the post and don’t understand psychological manipulation. It is worse than allowing children to gamble in casinos. These persuasive design implementations manipulate your mind in a way that is largely out of the control of the average adult, let alone children and adolescents that literally haven’t developed the executive function to resist the compulsive behavior that is being conditioned upon them.

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It's psychological warfare in my opinion. Are you also aware of the harmful impacts of wireless radiation?

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Came here just to post my recent reply to you on X here as well. As an aside, I think it would be super helpful if you posted something about useful smart phone alternatives. I think the team at Light Phone 3 really deserves a look. As said in the comments, smart phones/TikTok are crushing the executive functions and attention spans of adults as well.

Here was my response on X:

"Jon, you should look into the Light Phone 3. It is a phone that is an actual useful tool. And with no infinite scroll feeds. Promoting a product like this could cascade into a legitimate cultural shift (a micro-shift at the very least). And your voice has major sway in this moment!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhMb0-t2MyU

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