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J.B's avatar

Excellent, another book to add to my TBR!

I can't help but think about the link between conversation and reading comprehension. I have a second grader, so reading scores are always a hot topic at parent-teacher conferences and such. The Science of Reading is also gaining traction, with several great podcasts and books delving into the topic of why reading scores are falling.

I am just a parent. Not a social scientist, not an educator, but the feeling I get is that the lack of conversations is affecting reading comprehension. Conversation not only adds social value, but academic value. It's how we learn vocabulary and syntax. Conversation is also one of the many ways we learn about a topic, and can provide the frame work for deep and critical thinking about information.

I actually had this conversation with my 8 year old a few weeks ago (he's an excellent reader, but struggles socially because he is neurodivergent). We talked about how he gets frustrated when paired with a classmate for a reading assignment. We talked about how he might be a bit ahead because he doesn't play on his tablet much and he talks to me and his dad a lot, but that other kids might not have that experience at home and so don't have all the skills he has yet. He and I talk constantly, debriefing about school (another reason a content rich curriculum is preferable. Kids actually have something to talk about!), discussing our favorite concept rockets (The Sea Dragon, obviously), and talking about his feelings and emotions (he really hates making mistakes).

Unfortunately, we live in a rural area and walking down the street to visit a friend is not possible for him, but I do my best to ensure family conversations fill that gap during school breaks. This is why we have no devices at the dinner table, no tablet during short car rides (but a 3 hour ride to see the grandparents? Sure.), and we keep YouTube videos casted on the TV. Not only does this help me monitor what he's watching, and keep him from reading comments, but it also ensures we have things to talk about (how else would I know about concept rockets?).

Excellent article, I look forward to reading the book! I truly think conversation for kids is as important as dental hygiene or good nutrition.

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Lezlie Jones's avatar

My thoughts exactly as I read this. I teach 5th grade, and I’m constantly confused by their negative interactions with each other. I used to think the problem stemmed from not attending daycare where social learning begins. However, it’s not having the opportunity to learn or practice social skills at all! With everyone, including parents, tied to their devices, this problem is much greater than I thought. Have mercy!

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Denise Champney's avatar

You are not wrong, there is a connection between reading skills and conversation! I recently wrote about this topic here: https://restorechildhood.substack.com/cp/159484943 Technology is definitely having a negative impact on so many aspect of children's lives.

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Geoff Olynyk's avatar

I read stuff like this and it just feels so obviously true, obviously the right thing for what humans actually need… and then I contrast that to the world that the Silicon Valley accelerationists are building (especially in the US where you all let the ketamine set take over your government…) and I wonder how anyone actually wants the world where we all just interact with robots and the robots take all our jobs etc. What kind of a world is that for, you know, humans?

To steelman the SV view, I guess they’d say that the future they’re building is something akin to Fully Automated Luxury Socialism. The robots do everything and we have time to interact with people at our leisure. I think in the real world that’s not where it’s going though. The AI2027 prediction team (https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/introducing-ai-2027) in their *favourable* outcome scenario thinks the entire world economy will be controlled by 10 tech oligarchs by 2030. (The unfavourable scenario has the robots kill us all after we put them in control of all the actual factories and nuclear weapons and digital infrastructure for efficiency reasons.) And real world evidence says people are using their phones for dopamine hits, not to free up time to be off screens.

At what point does the average citizen rise up against this? It’s not going to happen in the US, your country may be beyond saving. From here in Canada, maybe we need to look to Europe for what a humanistic future can look like, instead of striving to be more like the US like we’ve done for 100 years.

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Christina Dinur's avatar

We rise up now! Keeping in mind that these very same Silicon Valley accelerationists impose strict limits on their own kids' screen time, send them to low tech schools, etc., all while pushing the rest of the world into a bleak almost full time virtual reality. It's almost like they know something we don't.

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LKR's avatar

I love the idea that conversations just happen while life is happening. To grow up confident, healthy and aware of how to make choices, they need exposure to the real world and many different types of relationships. When I was a teen, I lived in a wonderful neighborhood with a pool, swim team, tennis courts and easy walking access to see friends. This is the world I would like to gift back to our kids.

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Denise Champney's avatar

Thank you for bringing attention to this, Alison! I look forward to reading your book. As a school based SLP, I focus on helping children improve their shared imagination through play which is so crucial to conversation skills later in life. I have been writing to bring attention to the harms of 1:1 school issued devices that many children are given at such young ages and how they can negatively impact both social development along with reading/math skills. I recently wrote about it here: https://restorechildhood.substack.com/cp/159484943 It is time to undo the death grip that the tech industry has on children and restore childhood!

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Mark Dalessandro's avatar

As a work-from-home father of two boys in their 20s and a new grandfather of a little girl, I couldn't help but wonder why Robbie's mom didn't walk the mile down to the friend's house with him. She could have spent the time talking to him, perhaps noticing and greeting a few neighbors, and seeing for herself if she felt he would be safe walking alone. The world isn't without its dangers, but the choice doesn't have to be yes or no; perhaps I'll walk with you. Most of us could use less time in front of our screens and more time exercising outside, adults included.

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Nikki Swan's avatar

I don’t have children, and can’t therefore know just how hard this is to navigate. And I feel very strongly that this is a huge issue that we need to tackle with our eyes open. For starters, if we want to help children change their screen behaviour, this starts with adults modelling less attachment to their screens and educating them on the impact of phones on their wellbeing (good and bad). I wrote a piece on connection last week here on Substack - it’s crazy that despite being in the most connected time in history, we are living in THE most disconnected time socially.

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Nikki Swan's avatar

If anyone would be interested in checking out my essay (on connection and digital dependence in general), I’d be really grateful to hear your views as people already engaged in this important topic 🙏🏻

https://mindfulswan.substack.com/p/connection-and-the-internet

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Amy Harris's avatar

I have 3 kids over 21 & one 14 year old- a lot has changed with technology in that time- I see the ability to scroll as the main problem. Scrolling is the new open potato chip bag! The ubiquitous scroll requires vigilante babysitting of one’s “lower self” — how can a fourteen year old resist when I can barely control myself?

My youngest will reach his twenties having a depleted idea of who he is because of his screen addiction - you learn about yourself (humor, boundaries, weak points and strengths) by bouncing off of a variety of other personalities in real time- he has had a tenth of those interactions compared to his siblings.

Ugh- between screens, politics and the climate— I fucking give up!

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Harrison Chapin's avatar

Fascinating! I’m Harrison, an ex fine dining industry line cook. My stack "The Secret Ingredient" adapts hit restaurant recipes (mostly NYC and L.A.) for easy home cooking.

check us out:

https://thesecretingredient.substack.com

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Charles T Cleaver's avatar

Spot on. When my daughter was 14, I watched her sitting next to a boy school chum on a bench. I heard no conversation but they were texting each other. I was stunned at the idiocy and pointed out how the dialogs were slow because of typing and lacked immediacy. Just dumb.

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Brian Austen's avatar

Would this be happening in China?

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Ivan Faruolo's avatar

Exactly what we need. Beautiful article! As I tell to all my friends:"there is no balance since you access the internet. Once you're in, you only decide how much time you'll waste"...and as we know, it's not even a decision sometimes. But we must continue to inform people and to make them conscious of the existing situation!

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Beth Terranova's avatar

For people with symptoms of ASD and for ultra introverts, conversation can be hell, unless something specific is being discussed. No small talk or parties, please.

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David Pinder's avatar

Excellent! This topic is so important, and this particular essay is so well thought out and detailed.

For what it's worth, I addressed the topic from a slightly different angle here https://davidpinder.substack.com/p/where-is-the-wisdom-we-have-lost

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James Mills's avatar

I would like to see some discussion of the class dynamics behind 'digital childhood.' Working class parents (often unpaired) are more harried and often less attentive... but they also seem less neurotic and smothering.

It's a curious fact that attentive and supportive parents who care deeply about grades and sports and therapy, rarely seem willing to promote free range activities or limit phone access. Does this generalization seem accurate to people?

https://jmpolemic.substack.com/p/the-maelstrom

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Christina Dinur's avatar

I have seen reports that kids from disadvantaged/marginalized communities have higher daily screen time averages than those from more privileged communities. Public schools serving these disadvantaged populations also tend to use more EdTech at the expense of in person instruction.

And of course it's pretty well known at this point that many Silicon Valley leaders strictly limit their own kids' use of screens.

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PDB's avatar

I see this paradigm quite frequently. I live in a fairly well-to-do suburb and we are definitely more strict on technology access and less strict on playing outside and exploring the neighborhood and it definitely feels like we are the outlies.

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Ananisapta's avatar

Very interesting article! Thank for your thoughtful work on this topic.

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