Very sorry to read that Scouting is seeing such tough times in America.
I'm in the UK, and as well as being an anti-phone obsessive (as you might gather from the title of my Substack!), I also volunteer as a Scoutleader. The groups here remain incredibly popular, but as you might expect, are experiencing a shortage of volunteers.
Scouts is special. Many kids here have a packed schedule of other classes, mostly sports and dance. But they are heavily adult-led and over-organised in my opinion. Scouts stand out in valuing autonomy, trust in kids and a cheerfully freeform structure. Great to hear it championed.
And it’s for another time, but regarding adult-led sports clubs… I believe there is a huge and noticeable difference in the way kids play in adult led football/soccer than the way they did in informal “jumpers for goalposts” games. Always having an authority figure to appeal to is not a recipe for good behaviour and growth!
The lack of informal play groups is largely caused by the design of American neighborhoods built over the past half century, which are not walkable or bikable. Children who grow up in near suburbs built in the 1920s or before can just run around to each other's houses and play in the neighborhood, provided their parents aren't too paranoid. Kids in the exurbs can't go anywhere unless their parents agree to drive them there.
A relative worked with a Ukrainian woman who, with her husband, brought their two children over from Ukraine a few years before the war started. The 15-year-old girl became furiously rebellious and wanted to be sent back to her grandmother in Ukraine. Since I had lived in a similar country for a few years, my relative asked me if I had any idea what the girl's problem was. My educated guess was that in Ukraine she probably had free run of her town from age 5 on, even riding the bus, as I saw among kids where I lived. Then, at just the age where she is trying to gain still more independence, she's moved to an American exurb where she can't go anywhere unless her parents agreed to drive her.
My children are now in their 30's so it has been a while, but both my son and I were involved in Boy Scouts from the time he was a Tiger Scout to the time he received his Eagle. My wife and daughter were involved in Girl Scouts from Brownies to the time my daughter received her Gold Award. You hit the nail on the head. If you give kids responsibility, they rise to the occasion. As Scout leaders, we served largely in the background. The kids planned and cooked their own meals on campouts and set up their own campsites. We also had a hard and fast rule. NO ELCTRONICS ON A CAMPOUT!! Every year we had a new parent's meeting at the first campout. The message was DON'T HELP YOUR CHILD. Let the kids do everything. Adults camped in a separate area from the kids.
Things did not always go smoothly. Watching a group of eleven- to thirteen-year-old kids plan a menu and allocate chores, was actually pretty entertaining but they always got the job done. Parents can do things far faster and more efficiently that the kids. They can do those things with less conflict. But the whole point was about that conflict. That is how the kids learn and grow. When you remove that conflict, you remove the learning experience. And although there may have been more Oreo cookies on the menu than if an adult planned it the kids never starved and they always had hot meals for breakfast and dinner. Some of the meals were pretty darn good.
Your kids are ready for far more responsibility than you think. One of the things I really liked was watching was the older boys helping and teaching the younger ones The job of a parent is to prepare your children for adulthood, not keep them wrapped in bubble wrap forever.
I taught the shotgun merit badge for many years, and I can tell you that the kids handled firearms far more safely than many adults I have seen. I started every class the same way. I would ask the kids how they would feel if their parents told them, OK, we have taken care of you long enough. You are on your own now. I would then explain I was going to exactly do that. When they were on the range, I would treat them like adults, and I would expect them to behave like adults. I explained to them that part of being an adult is zero-tolerance for being a kid around firearms. Once the firearms were cased and packed away, they could go back to being kids again. I probably taught over 100 kids "first shots" and I never had a single issue. That is not the case with some adults I have worked with.
The Eagle Scout award greatly helped my son to get in the university he wanted to attend. I recommend Scouts to anyone with children.
"Your kids are ready for far more responsibility than you think. One of the things I really liked was watching was the older boys helping and teaching the younger ones The job of a parent is to prepare your children for adulthood, not keep them wrapped in bubble wrap forever."
Wonderful response Jory!! As a Scoutmaster I often tell the other parents that the hardest part of the job is NOT helping!! NOT giving immediate answers. Letting them figure it out, following a chain-of-command of other Scouts and relying on the experience of the older Scouts to come up with solutions and face any consequences themselves.
The adults are just guardrails.
I wish all parents could experience just 1 meal prep/cooking/eating together/clean-up session on a Scout campout, complete with camp fire building, wood chopping, charcoal lighting and Dutch Oven meals.
Most would be amazed to see 14 and 15 year olds leading the way and 11 and 12 year olds doing so much more than most other parents would have believed them capable of.
YES! A thousand times YES to this - build community, get your kids active and involved in everything you can. Sports, clubs, activities, art, music. Force them if you have to! This idea that kids of any ages get to chose all of their own adventures is bullshit. Your job as a parent will forever be summed up in the phase "it's for your own good"
I know that perceptions have take a huge public hit in recent years (massively unfairly) but I can tell you that Boy Scouts has been awesome for my 14 & 16 yr old sons. I plan to write about the journey one one these days on Substack, but please - whether you have boys or girls, consider checking out your local Scout Troops. Give it a try! Your milage may vary, as Troops and Packs (Cub Scouts) are very individualized and driven by how much the parents invest in being leaders and working the programs, but it is 1,000% worth checking out. Hit me up on Substack if I can help in any way.
Yes, without a doubt, kids need authentic play outside of school. Not organized play but unhinged, self-directed play. But more than anything related to learning culture and the removal of screens, classrooms need play. As an independent play scientist, I have spent my career exploring play’s role in education, building pathways to eradicate play-deprivation in schools. While play’s importance is widely acknowledged, our commitment remains superficial. We must embrace play as a fundamental force of nature, integrating it into classrooms with urgency. By transforming classrooms into playgrounds of the mind, we empower children to embrace play as a moral imperative in their learning. I believe Jon Haidt has yet to fully grasp play’s role in the classroom. The focus on smartphones is shortsighted. The deeper issue is intellectual myopia among adults who fail to see the consequences of denying children the right to learn through play. Play-deprivation in our schools is not just an educational failure—it is a moral hazard, a systemic failure of parenting, schooling, and society. Like fish unaware of water, many do not recognize the restrictive culture shaping them. Play fosters moral order, helping children develop ethical reasoning and resilience. Even banning smartphones won’t fix a play-deprived learning culture. Deprived minds seek unhealthy outlets, while those enriched by play develop self-regulation and adaptability. As the underpinnings of education collapse and educators bail in the face of unruly children, there is an opportunity to fill the vacuum with a force of nature capable of restoring the balance and wisdom of play to its rightful place in the lives of children--and teachers.
While play’s importance is widely acknowledged, our commitment remains superficial.
Love this - and I agree - the answer isn't just in taking the phones away - it's very much also in giving kids alternatives that make making using their phones both impossible and unwanted.
1.] Boy Scouts attendance collapsed immediately Courts mandated girls attend and women be Scout leaders. [And that’s causal not correlational.]
2.] Churches meet your definition of the necessary organisations, and have and continue to fulfil the function you, so correctly and accurately, identify.
It's kind of absurd to compare statistics in group participation over decades without acknowledging that a good deal of the decline has occurred because the kids were never born. This is also the reason for school district shrinkage and the reason why YMCAs and local pools are increasingly hiring fit retirees as lifeguards to replace the teenagers who were never born.
Holy cow, it happened at last: the word "scouting" finally appeared in an Afterbabel post!!!
That's great. To know why, that is why scouting is made to order EXACTLY for the kind of problems Afterbabel denounces, help yourself to the "Solution Must(???) Not Be Named" part of this post of mine from last year: https://mfioretti.substack.com/p/what-gray-and-haidt-both-miss-about
We have been desperately trying to start a Scout Troop for boys at our nonprofit serving refugees in Chicago. The Girl Scout council really helped us get started with all kinds a resources and volunteers. We have 50 refugee girls participating and many mothers! We are still struggling to do something similar for the boys. Even though we certainly have 50 boys desperate to participate, we have only been able to get enough help to invite 12 boys. How can I find more men willing to volunteer?
Go to nearby churches, synagogues, mosques etc.. Men who attend religious services regularly generally have a strong sense of community. Local clergy can help you to identify potential adult leaders. In addition, contact the Scouting district that serves your area. They can help.
As a former camp counselor, I've found that getting children out at first light sets the mental (and biological rhythm) for the day. Get out for the sunrise, and change your life!
I grew up in a small town in Iowa where scouting was a way of life. In my "Eagle Interview" I was asked why I would stay in scouting after I received my "Eagle" award. The adults seemed surprised by my answer that I needed to stay around to teach the younger kids. The author's emphasis on kids being leaders is spot on. BTW, as "Tenderfeet," my buddy and I sold far more candy at $1/box than any other group - good for 2 or 3 canoes as I recall.
One key component of the play-based childhood, and maybe the most-important element, is that—back in the day—most or many moms were at home, which meant kids were at home instead of at day care. Community groups can certainly be part of the fabric of neighborhood-centered youth culture, but if the kids aren't around because a parent isn't home to make that possible, I don't see how you gain traction by simply trying to revive the groups. My kids are raising their kids in a much different environment than my wife and I raised them and certainly than we ourselves were raised, and the biggest difference is that many or most moms are now at work and not at home.
How I wish all those important voices with their big microphones were around 5-10 years ago when I was rushing in agony, raising my kids and feeling like a Cassandra trying to explain to everyone around the importance of kids independence, agency, walkability, social trust... :(
Very sorry to read that Scouting is seeing such tough times in America.
I'm in the UK, and as well as being an anti-phone obsessive (as you might gather from the title of my Substack!), I also volunteer as a Scoutleader. The groups here remain incredibly popular, but as you might expect, are experiencing a shortage of volunteers.
Scouts is special. Many kids here have a packed schedule of other classes, mostly sports and dance. But they are heavily adult-led and over-organised in my opinion. Scouts stand out in valuing autonomy, trust in kids and a cheerfully freeform structure. Great to hear it championed.
"Scouts stand out in valuing autonomy, trust in kids and a cheerfully freeform structure."
YES - that is where Scouts stands apart. Sports and clubs are great, but as you said, they are primarily adult led.
Do not prepare the way for your child, rather, prepare your child for the way.
Thank you!
And it’s for another time, but regarding adult-led sports clubs… I believe there is a huge and noticeable difference in the way kids play in adult led football/soccer than the way they did in informal “jumpers for goalposts” games. Always having an authority figure to appeal to is not a recipe for good behaviour and growth!
The lack of informal play groups is largely caused by the design of American neighborhoods built over the past half century, which are not walkable or bikable. Children who grow up in near suburbs built in the 1920s or before can just run around to each other's houses and play in the neighborhood, provided their parents aren't too paranoid. Kids in the exurbs can't go anywhere unless their parents agree to drive them there.
A relative worked with a Ukrainian woman who, with her husband, brought their two children over from Ukraine a few years before the war started. The 15-year-old girl became furiously rebellious and wanted to be sent back to her grandmother in Ukraine. Since I had lived in a similar country for a few years, my relative asked me if I had any idea what the girl's problem was. My educated guess was that in Ukraine she probably had free run of her town from age 5 on, even riding the bus, as I saw among kids where I lived. Then, at just the age where she is trying to gain still more independence, she's moved to an American exurb where she can't go anywhere unless her parents agreed to drive her.
My children are now in their 30's so it has been a while, but both my son and I were involved in Boy Scouts from the time he was a Tiger Scout to the time he received his Eagle. My wife and daughter were involved in Girl Scouts from Brownies to the time my daughter received her Gold Award. You hit the nail on the head. If you give kids responsibility, they rise to the occasion. As Scout leaders, we served largely in the background. The kids planned and cooked their own meals on campouts and set up their own campsites. We also had a hard and fast rule. NO ELCTRONICS ON A CAMPOUT!! Every year we had a new parent's meeting at the first campout. The message was DON'T HELP YOUR CHILD. Let the kids do everything. Adults camped in a separate area from the kids.
Things did not always go smoothly. Watching a group of eleven- to thirteen-year-old kids plan a menu and allocate chores, was actually pretty entertaining but they always got the job done. Parents can do things far faster and more efficiently that the kids. They can do those things with less conflict. But the whole point was about that conflict. That is how the kids learn and grow. When you remove that conflict, you remove the learning experience. And although there may have been more Oreo cookies on the menu than if an adult planned it the kids never starved and they always had hot meals for breakfast and dinner. Some of the meals were pretty darn good.
Your kids are ready for far more responsibility than you think. One of the things I really liked was watching was the older boys helping and teaching the younger ones The job of a parent is to prepare your children for adulthood, not keep them wrapped in bubble wrap forever.
I taught the shotgun merit badge for many years, and I can tell you that the kids handled firearms far more safely than many adults I have seen. I started every class the same way. I would ask the kids how they would feel if their parents told them, OK, we have taken care of you long enough. You are on your own now. I would then explain I was going to exactly do that. When they were on the range, I would treat them like adults, and I would expect them to behave like adults. I explained to them that part of being an adult is zero-tolerance for being a kid around firearms. Once the firearms were cased and packed away, they could go back to being kids again. I probably taught over 100 kids "first shots" and I never had a single issue. That is not the case with some adults I have worked with.
The Eagle Scout award greatly helped my son to get in the university he wanted to attend. I recommend Scouts to anyone with children.
"Your kids are ready for far more responsibility than you think. One of the things I really liked was watching was the older boys helping and teaching the younger ones The job of a parent is to prepare your children for adulthood, not keep them wrapped in bubble wrap forever."
Wonderful response Jory!! As a Scoutmaster I often tell the other parents that the hardest part of the job is NOT helping!! NOT giving immediate answers. Letting them figure it out, following a chain-of-command of other Scouts and relying on the experience of the older Scouts to come up with solutions and face any consequences themselves.
The adults are just guardrails.
I wish all parents could experience just 1 meal prep/cooking/eating together/clean-up session on a Scout campout, complete with camp fire building, wood chopping, charcoal lighting and Dutch Oven meals.
Most would be amazed to see 14 and 15 year olds leading the way and 11 and 12 year olds doing so much more than most other parents would have believed them capable of.
Cherry cobbler cooked in a Dutch Oven while camping out on a cold winter night. Nothing will ever taste that good. 😆😆😆😆😆
Spot on! I think Dutch Oven Cobbler over a campfire might serve as my 'death row meal'
YES! A thousand times YES to this - build community, get your kids active and involved in everything you can. Sports, clubs, activities, art, music. Force them if you have to! This idea that kids of any ages get to chose all of their own adventures is bullshit. Your job as a parent will forever be summed up in the phase "it's for your own good"
I know that perceptions have take a huge public hit in recent years (massively unfairly) but I can tell you that Boy Scouts has been awesome for my 14 & 16 yr old sons. I plan to write about the journey one one these days on Substack, but please - whether you have boys or girls, consider checking out your local Scout Troops. Give it a try! Your milage may vary, as Troops and Packs (Cub Scouts) are very individualized and driven by how much the parents invest in being leaders and working the programs, but it is 1,000% worth checking out. Hit me up on Substack if I can help in any way.
Here is my take …
IF Community structures decline
AND the system shifts toward individual optimization, safety, and performance
THEN unstructured, peer-based childhood disappears
AND low-friction substitutes (screens) fill the gap
SO removing phones without redesigning the system will not restore childhood it will just remove the replacement
Phones didn’t break childhood. They scaled a system that already had.
The question isn’t: “How do we bring back youth groups?”
The question is: What kind of system makes youth groups inevitable?
NOW WHAT?
Yes, without a doubt, kids need authentic play outside of school. Not organized play but unhinged, self-directed play. But more than anything related to learning culture and the removal of screens, classrooms need play. As an independent play scientist, I have spent my career exploring play’s role in education, building pathways to eradicate play-deprivation in schools. While play’s importance is widely acknowledged, our commitment remains superficial. We must embrace play as a fundamental force of nature, integrating it into classrooms with urgency. By transforming classrooms into playgrounds of the mind, we empower children to embrace play as a moral imperative in their learning. I believe Jon Haidt has yet to fully grasp play’s role in the classroom. The focus on smartphones is shortsighted. The deeper issue is intellectual myopia among adults who fail to see the consequences of denying children the right to learn through play. Play-deprivation in our schools is not just an educational failure—it is a moral hazard, a systemic failure of parenting, schooling, and society. Like fish unaware of water, many do not recognize the restrictive culture shaping them. Play fosters moral order, helping children develop ethical reasoning and resilience. Even banning smartphones won’t fix a play-deprived learning culture. Deprived minds seek unhealthy outlets, while those enriched by play develop self-regulation and adaptability. As the underpinnings of education collapse and educators bail in the face of unruly children, there is an opportunity to fill the vacuum with a force of nature capable of restoring the balance and wisdom of play to its rightful place in the lives of children--and teachers.
While play’s importance is widely acknowledged, our commitment remains superficial.
Love this - and I agree - the answer isn't just in taking the phones away - it's very much also in giving kids alternatives that make making using their phones both impossible and unwanted.
Valuable essay—respect!
Two critical empirical facts you missed:
1.] Boy Scouts attendance collapsed immediately Courts mandated girls attend and women be Scout leaders. [And that’s causal not correlational.]
2.] Churches meet your definition of the necessary organisations, and have and continue to fulfil the function you, so correctly and accurately, identify.
Keep up the good work!
Is it hopeless to think that adults in the US can also rekindle a strong sense of community that is not either based on church or children?
It's kind of absurd to compare statistics in group participation over decades without acknowledging that a good deal of the decline has occurred because the kids were never born. This is also the reason for school district shrinkage and the reason why YMCAs and local pools are increasingly hiring fit retirees as lifeguards to replace the teenagers who were never born.
Holy cow, it happened at last: the word "scouting" finally appeared in an Afterbabel post!!!
That's great. To know why, that is why scouting is made to order EXACTLY for the kind of problems Afterbabel denounces, help yourself to the "Solution Must(???) Not Be Named" part of this post of mine from last year: https://mfioretti.substack.com/p/what-gray-and-haidt-both-miss-about
We have been desperately trying to start a Scout Troop for boys at our nonprofit serving refugees in Chicago. The Girl Scout council really helped us get started with all kinds a resources and volunteers. We have 50 refugee girls participating and many mothers! We are still struggling to do something similar for the boys. Even though we certainly have 50 boys desperate to participate, we have only been able to get enough help to invite 12 boys. How can I find more men willing to volunteer?
Go to nearby churches, synagogues, mosques etc.. Men who attend religious services regularly generally have a strong sense of community. Local clergy can help you to identify potential adult leaders. In addition, contact the Scouting district that serves your area. They can help.
Kudos for what you are doing!!
As a former camp counselor, I've found that getting children out at first light sets the mental (and biological rhythm) for the day. Get out for the sunrise, and change your life!
I grew up in a small town in Iowa where scouting was a way of life. In my "Eagle Interview" I was asked why I would stay in scouting after I received my "Eagle" award. The adults seemed surprised by my answer that I needed to stay around to teach the younger kids. The author's emphasis on kids being leaders is spot on. BTW, as "Tenderfeet," my buddy and I sold far more candy at $1/box than any other group - good for 2 or 3 canoes as I recall.
Kids will build a black market for phones.
One key component of the play-based childhood, and maybe the most-important element, is that—back in the day—most or many moms were at home, which meant kids were at home instead of at day care. Community groups can certainly be part of the fabric of neighborhood-centered youth culture, but if the kids aren't around because a parent isn't home to make that possible, I don't see how you gain traction by simply trying to revive the groups. My kids are raising their kids in a much different environment than my wife and I raised them and certainly than we ourselves were raised, and the biggest difference is that many or most moms are now at work and not at home.
How I wish all those important voices with their big microphones were around 5-10 years ago when I was rushing in agony, raising my kids and feeling like a Cassandra trying to explain to everyone around the importance of kids independence, agency, walkability, social trust... :(